Ritvik - the death of the Sampradaya? Oh please!
  • May 2004
    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhuapda. Hare Krsna.

    Below I have pasted two quotes that were posted on another thread in a feeble attempt to defeat ritvik. I have several problems with both quotes which I will go into under the quotes.

    First Quote:

    *Sripad Bhakti Bhavana Visnu Maharaja:
    In the words of the most exalted and until recently, the senior most Gaudiya Vaisnava on the planet, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami Maharaja, whose clear statement on the ritvik idea says it all, "It is the death of the sampradaya."

    ***************************************************************************
    Second Quote:

    What possibly could/is there more clear than this?

    I also gave a link to a previous post, where in Sridhara Maharaja dear Godbrother of Srila Prabhupada, asks Govinda Maharaja to become head of the Caitanya Math, and for the time being become Ritvik, which is as per etiquette when Guru is still present, but in these circumstances Govinda Maharaja was to be seen as the Acarya of Caitanya Math, so indeed the disciples initiated would become disciples of Govinda Maharaja.

    from link I gave before:

    Sridhara Maharaja:
    "In the maha mandal [earth] Sagar Maharaja [formerly Akshayananda Swami] and many others, they are also ritviks of Swami Maharaja [Srila Prabhupada] and also myself and they may do so. But in this Math he, Govinda Maharaja will be the representative. Henceforth he will represent me in this affair beginning from today's function."

    Purport
    BY B. V. TRIPURARI SWAMI:
    Here Sridhara Maharaja uses the word ritvik as representative of himself. While speaking he remembers Prabhupada and wants to assert that those of us who were initiating on Sridhara Maharaja's behalf already in certain instances as detailed above were also representing Prabhupada, and not just himself, as we were Prabhupada's disciples. So he has humbly mentioned Swami Maharaja, as if to say that it was due to his influence as well that people were coming to him for initiation.
    ---

    So we can see without there being any disciples of Srila Prabhupada, nobody could have gone to Sridhara Maharaja, there would be no initiation, the Paramapara would stop.
    ****************************************************

    One of the problems that I have with the first quote is that it is hearsay. Someone is saying that Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami said this but there is no reference to where and in what context this was said.

    The second problem I have with this quote is that obviously is a very small seven word portion of a larger conversation. Again, what is the context? Is it about Srila Prabhupada? Is it about ISKCON?

    Third problem is that Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami is not ISKCON so why use a tiny portion of something he said (which may or may not be about ISKCON – who knows?) in an attempt to defeat the method of initiation that Srila Prabhupada laid down to be used in His organization.

    Basically, my problems with the second quote are similar if not the same as my problems with the first one. The personalities involved in these quotes are not ISKCON and do not appear to be talking about ISKCON.

    Why quote discussions of personalities outside of ISKCON on matters that concern Srila Prabhupada and His organization?

    Srila Prabhupada is our founder Acarya and only He should be consulted. Quotes and opinions concerning Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON of those outside of ISKCON are irrelevant to the followers of Srila Prabhupada.

    As the Founder Acarya of ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada was looking out for the best interest of ISKCON. He set up the ritvik system for only ISKCON as only ISKCON was HIS concern.

    Srila Prabhupada is to be the only diksa guru for His organization – not for every Vaisnava organization on the planet.

    After He established ISKCON Srila Prabhupada was the sole diksa guru from 1966 to 1977. At no point during that time was the disciplic succession endangered nor is it endangered now if Srila Prabhupada remains as our initiating guru.

    It is more than just a little foolish but also narrow minded and uneducated to believe that the goal of ritvik is to end the Sampradaya with Prabhupada.

    Remembering that Prabhupada set up the ritvik system; does anyone really think that Srila Prabhupada would do this with the intent of ending the disciple succession with He Himself being the last ever in line?

    This is a most offensive theory to even consider. It is indeed in our best interest and in the interest of ISKCON that Srila Prabhupada remains our only diksa guru (within His organization – ISKCON).

    It is in my humble opinion that should someone feel the desire to be diksa guru then they should follow the example of others and start their own math or organization and take disciples within their organization only.

    ISKCON is Srila Prabhupada’s movement and much confusion mixed with many problems have arisen in the past 26 years or so due to the self-appointed and elected bogus gurus who have taken over and made changes which were never authorized by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

    These changes include book changes which Srila Prabhupada requested to not be changed. The changes pervert the meanings of some of Srila Prabhupada’s purports to justify their self appointed voted in status of bogus gurus.

    Many of these “guru” changes are creating mass confusion whereas Prabhupada’s original instructions are very clear and easily understood by anyone who will take the time to read them with an open heart.

    Some of the changes are creating a sense of urgency in newbies to Krishna Consciousness to get a guru NOW jumping on the first so called guru that comes along before they have a chance to develop a solid foundation and relationship with Srila Prabhupada.

    Consider this please, ISKCON grew very rapidly and was strong while following Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON has deviated from Prabhupada and is now in grave danger.

    Temples that were once packed are now practically empty and remain closed much of the time due to lack of devotees to perform the duties of caring for the deities.

    It is time to get back on the right path and put Srila Prabhupada At The Center as our only diksa guru for ISKCON.

    One of the four regs laid down as law by Srila Prabhupada is no gambling. Why gamble on this important issue and commit spiritual suicide?

    Now I have a question. How does a self appointed or elected guru fit into the disciplic succession?
  • May 2004
    Hare Krsna. Pamho.AGTSP



    *Sripad Bhakti Bhavana Visnu Maharaja:
    In the words of the most exalted and until recently, the senior most Gaudiya Vaisnava on the planet, Srila Bhakti Promode Puri Goswami Maharaja, whose clear statement on the ritvik idea says it all, "It is the death of the sampradaya."


    Universal, its not up for discussion.

    The rest which you said, I have nothing to say.

    I don't wish to say anything further.
  • May 2004
    Nitai-Gaura-Haribol.

    I would though like to make further comments,
    as you have took the time to make these points.

    Srila Prabhupada came to the west to teach us about Bhakti. To say Iskcon is separate organization from Gaudiya Math, is to call it in effect Non-Vaishnava Sampradaya, this is in essence what ‘The 14th Sahajiya Sampradaya’ means.

    The segregation you are saying is Mayavadi {illusion}, it is not Sampradaya, Prabhupada is Guru, this identification of equating Him with God, has been done throughout India by different sects…’ and is in essence an offence at His Lotus Feet,

    Excluding Vaishnava Tradition which has been in effect since time Immemorial, and changing is not what Archarya have done.

    The confusion between Siksa and Diksa is apparent, the process of Diksa is set down, it is not open to debate or change, wonder is why Prabhupada would at all Initiate if not for his own disciples to carry on the tradition, of-course Prabhupada trusted many of his disciples to Initiate on his behalf while he was present, as per etiquette, when the Guru is no longer in body, it is the Disciples ‘Duty’ to see to it the Tradition is not lost, and to serve the Guru Instructions. This is the process set down, regardless of the so-called problems of Iskcon, we must not concoct our own means of Initiation, if indeed we want to be disciples, we should take shelter in a disciple of Prabhupada, who will not invent ways of Bhakti, in this way we can follow His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.


    Your servant

    Govind./
  • May 2004
    ROTFLMAO...what kind of concocted gibberish is this? You would have been better off sticking to your first post of not responding than to have posted this.

    Actually, knowing your style of writing - I know you did not compose this.

    :lol: This is rich! Oh my!

    Goodbye. Have a nice life! I said all I need to say in my original post in this thread.

    I would though like to make further comments,
    as you have took the time to make these points.

    Srila Prabhupada came to the west to teach us about Bhakti. To say Iskcon is separate organization from Gaudiya Math, is to call it in effect Non-Vaishnava Sampradaya, this is in essence what ‘The 14th Sahajiya Sampradaya’ means.

    The segregation you are saying is Mayavadi {illusion}, it is not Sampradaya, Prabhupada is Guru, this identification of equating Him with God, has been done throughout India by different sects…’ and is in essence an offence at His Lotus Feet,

    Excluding Vaishnava Tradition which has been in effect since time Immemorial, and changing is not what Archarya have done.

    The confusion between Siksa and Diksa is apparent, the process of Diksa is set down, it is not open to debate or change, wonder is why Prabhupada would at all Initiate if not for his own disciples to carry on the tradition, of-course Prabhupada trusted many of his disciples to Initiate on his behalf while he was present, as per etiquette, when the Guru is no longer in body, it is the Disciples ‘Duty’ to see to it the Tradition is not lost, and to serve the Guru Instructions. This is the process set down, regardless of the so-called problems of Iskcon, we must not concoct our own means of Initiation, if indeed we want to be disciples, we should take shelter in a disciple of Prabhupada, who will not invent ways of Bhakti, in this way we can follow His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

  • May 2004
    Actually, knowing your style of writing - I know you did not compose this.


    Actually I did write this, by Grace of Lord Nityananda.

    Further more, if you do not wish to conduct in Vaishnava way,
    then I suggest we shall not talk, as there is a chance of offence.
  • May 2004
    :D Then stop responding to my posts.

    Have a nice life.