Which Bhagwat Gita ?
  • May 2004
    Hare Krsna,

    Which Bhagwat Gita, one should read ?. Which one is non-flavored and gives true description on all aspects ?
  • May 2004
  • May 2004
    Thanks for the link.. I could not understand the following.. what exactly mean by "nonfallen spiriutal master/translator "

    Hare Krsna
  • May 2004
  • June 2004
  • June 2004
  • June 2004
  • June 2004
    Yes Srila Prabhupada ordered Yasodanandana to make sure they did not change ONE WORD of his books, and so the first thing they did was: to kick out Yasodanandana and change the books. We had to make a whole lawsuit and challenge the GBC, and we won, and now have the rights to print the original editions through the KBI. We have the 1972 editions of Gita now printed and we will let you know more about where to get the paper copy, but you can also download the 1972 edition.

    As for the guru appointment, there never was any? Gurus are -- not -- appointed as Prabhupada said about a ka-zillion times? Of course the GBC also says: gurus have zones, gurus fall down into illicit sex, gurus are whack-job rock and roll music players with machine guns in the trunk of their car, they drink beer, they take percodan, they have affairs with married women ad infinitum.

    The good news is that when Dhruvanatha prabhu was going to blow off the head if his guru with a shot-gun for "having his wife," I stopped him and said, you will be in jail for 25 years while your "guru" is already going to the lower regions, so do not make your life a mess over some fool who is already in the drain hole ... and I saved one of their gurus from certain death, of course the GBC never thanks me for things like that?

    And there was no appointment of gurus as Tamal, Jayatirtha and others later admitted. No, Srila Prabhupada did not appoint deviants as -- Krishna's successors? This is absurd, deviants are not Krishna's successors as is known to every school child over the age of eight, but never, to the GBC? So yes, the book changes are connected to the bogus guru appointment issue, thanks pd
    :wink:
  • June 2004
    Before Arya can spew out any more his concoctions I will answer the question as to why he is so upset by Devotee108 stating the desire to read only Srila Prabhupada's undestroyed originals.

    The only people who become angry over this issue are those who have something to lose and that something is power. If the devotees read Srila Prabhupada's undestroyed originals they will have the knowledge to know when the unauthorized gurus are lying to them and will question and even leave the bogus gurus in the dust.

    This is one time when ignorance is bliss - bliss for the self-appointed and voted in unauthorized so called gurus - that is!

    Hence, Arya, the unauthorized guru in training, has become angry over this issue - just as he became angry in his paltalk room when he told someone that their chanting was totally meaningless and a waste of time until such a time that they get initiated by a bogus guru. The person questioned the validity of this absurd concoction and Arya kicked them out of the room. Nice way to treat a sincere seeker! I was there so this is not hearsay.

    Anyone who has read even one page or paragraph of Srila Prabhupada's undestroyed originals would know this is a concoction - a child could figure it out quite easily.

    But new devotees are not being encouraged to read Prabhupada's undestroyed originals and actually are not being encouraged to read much of the destroyed editions. Instead, they are being told that they are too ignorant to understand Prabhupada's books and so must have the writings explained to them by some bogus power hungry individual in the guise of "guru".

    That is a maha offense to Srila Prabhupada. But then what do you expect from these people who have everything to lose and nothing to gain if new devotees discover the truth!

    And the senior devotees either must toe the line, keep quiet or have life become a living hell until they hit the road!

    It is all quite simple - don't read the destroyed editions of Srila Prabhupada's writings and listen to His lectures instead of the garbage that others are spewing.

    Arm yourself with the truth - the truth is everything that Srila Prabhupada speaks and with that truth we have the armour to defend ourselves from the onslaught of concoctions perpetrated by the unauthorized gurus and those who choose to believe these concoctions (ie Arya) instead of going straight to Prabhupada our bona fide source of truth, strength and knowledge!

    Quit shoving Srila Prabhupada to the back door of the temple until you lock Him out competely. Put Srila Prabhupada back at the center of ISKCON. This is the only way to save ISKCON from a dark dark future - darker than now.

    Hare Krsna!
  • June 2004
    Thanks. Our sentiments exactly. They changed the books and the siddhanta. For example ....

    In 1978 Danavir and Vipramukhya wrote a newsletter sent to all ISKCON centers saying that you now need to worship their "new gurus" aka Jayatirtha, Kirtanananda, and others, as one's diksha guru, and take initiation from them, and worship them as Vishnupada etc., nevermind we pointed out to them that these men had a tendency to deviate. They kicked us out and forced people to worship their deviants as Christ like messiah "Tirthapadas" etc. without even listening to our constant warnings.

    They think people on the messiah platform cannot even follow the basic regs of the kanistha! We even saw one "voted in" ISKCON guru eating chicken salad after he blooped! This is their idea of diksha guru: illicit sex, drugs, rock n roll, and eating chickens etc. Sorry, this is not even basic bhakta class level.

    And even after we told folks like Danavir and Vipramukhya there were deviations in their messiahs, they still said we need to "take initiation" from their deviant messiahs. Sorry. Deviants cannot give diksha, this is what they fail to realize. The Vishnupada messiah must be pure, that is clear from shastra.

    So this is all they care about, they say you need some deviant to toss a banana into a fire, even if he is having illicit sex and he is a drug addict, and that makes your "purely initiated as a resident of God's kingdom." as if God's kingdom is Market Street and Van Ness in San Francisco?

    They are at best smartas, if that, since even the smartas try to follow some standards, whereas the GBC gurus have not much of standard at all, they cannot follow even the basic process for the new bhakta. That is also why they change the books, to suit this deviant siddhanta, thanks pd
  • bhaktabob October 2005
    At this juncture I felt compelled to jump in. I have long felt that it only makes sense to follow the original books. It was clealy a directive from Srila Prabhupada and if we can't follow only the directives we find convienient. My question is, if the GBC gurus are bogus, then who can do legit initiations?
  • October 2005
    Hare Krishna Bhakta Bob,

    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    Sorry but I have stepped away from political topics prefering to follow Prabhupada instruction of "Always remember Krishna. Never forget Krishna."

    While my opinions on this remain unchanged I choose to not go round and round any more on such discussions that never get us anywhere and only take our minds away from thoughts of the Lord and His pastimes etc.

    Anything that I have to say on such political topics can be found in past posts and are just as true for me today as they were when I wrote them.

    Now let's talk about Krishna. Our time is shorter than we think. Let's not waste a moment.

    Haribol
    your servant
    Rukmini-Devi dasi
  • bhaktabob October 2005
    Hare Krishna!

    Thanks for your response. I should clarify that I wasn't asking rhetorically, I really am puzzled. I have been an "at home" devotee for years-having been turned of by the politics and "biz" of most temples i've been to.

    Nonetheless, I respect your views and thoughts and the sensitivity to this topic yoou have expressed. You are, of course, correct. So liittle time and so much Krishna!!!!
  • vespertine212 October 2005
    To answer the original question:

    Don't worry about all of this irritating discussion about gurus and ISKCON. It's a meaningless distraction from real spiritual life.

    Krishna says to always remember Him, and to fully surrender to Him (BG 18.65-66). Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu taught His followers to do this in an astonishing and unprecidented way.

    Follow the devotees of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, headed by Srila Rupa Goswami and Srila Raghunatha das Goswami. Anyone who can teach you how to surrender in their line is automatically the best teacher of Bhagavad Gita.

    HDG Srila Prabhupada has preached this widely. You should read his Gita. Whether it's this version or that version will make very little difference to anyone who is sincere, and interested in more than just bickering.
  • bhaktabob October 2005
    Thank you for the kind response. That has been my attitute through the years of reading and studying. Nonetheless, association with other devotees is good and I am discomforted with all the bickering that is ongoing. I gues I will have to see it as another diversion of this maya existence
  • vespertine212 October 2005
    Yes. And know that people that bicker over these things are not ideal association. Try to find good association that is steeped in the real substance of Krishna consciousness.
  • December 2005
  • BhaktaRay December 2005
    The guru issue has factionated ISKCON into three separate camps.
    The "Prabhupada is the only bona fide diksa guru so far" camp.
    The "Ritvik is the only way to get initiation" camp.
    and of course ISKCON that follows the
    "Multiple GBC-appointed Acaryas" camp.
    It is unfortunate that devotees are literally at each others' throats on this issue. It makes it really hard to get association without committing to one of these doctrines and frequenting the appropriate asramas.
    Regardless of camps, factions and schools of thought there is still guru, sadhu and sastra, not to mention the guru in the heart, Caitya guru.
    Srila Prabhupada is my first and foremost siksa guru. Nobody should argue with that. He has stipulated the qualifications of a diksa guru in a number of places, namely , that he be maha-bhagavata, uttama-adhikari.
    It makes sense that the initiating guru that will take one back to Godhead will have already made the journey, which means he must be fully a self-realized devotee of Lord Krsna.

    In any event nobody, but nobody can coerce a Vaisnava into taking initiation. That is a very dangerous practice.

    As far as the idea that chanting has no benefit unless one is initiated, that is bogus. In the First Canto, First Chapter Text 14 of the Srimad Bhagavatam

    âpannah samsritim ghorâm

    yan-nâma vivas'o grinan

    tatah sadyo vimucyeta

    yad bibheti svayam bhayam

    âpannah--being entangled; samsritim--in the hurdle of birth and death; ghorâm--too complicated; yat--what; nâma--the absolute name; vivas'ah--unconsciously; grinan--chanting; tatah--from that; sadyah--at once; vimucyeta--gets freedom; yat--that which; bibheti--fears; svayam--personally; bhayam--fear itself.

    TRANSLATION

    Living beings who are entangled in the complicated meshes of birth and death can be freed immediately by even unconsciously chanting the holy name of Krishna, which is feared by fear personified.


    The word 'sadya' means 'at once'. So 'sadyo vimucyeta' means 'freed at once'. Also 'vivasah grinan' means 'unconsciously chanting'.
    This is a powerful and straightforward sloka and refutes any idea that there are mulitple conditions on the efficacy of the Holy Name.
  • December 2005
  • rakeshsingh2 September 2007
    When Guru Prabhupad was alive that time there was no need to go out of ISKCON. But this statement is no more valid for ISKCON now a days.

    Prabhupad said that : No add, No delete, No change in his version of books at any cost. But ISKCON edited (modified) almost all the books written by Prabhupad many times and for some of the things the actual meaning got changed entirely.

    ISKCON think that even bhajan you must do their bhajans only. ISKCON will not encourage/support even if you do good bhajan in Hindi or any other language except Benglan.
  • Ratnesh September 2007
  • gary.fowkes September 2009
  • Eashan August 2012
    Read BHagavad Gita As it Is 1972 Macmillan Version
  • Eashan August 2012
    Read BHagavad Gita As it Is 1972 Macmillan Version.. It is said to be unaltered by the so called editors!